Well, the postman finally decided to deliver the mail that accumulated while I was on vacation. One of the items I was waiting for (in fact, the main item I was waiting for) was my Pimsleur Indonesian CDs.
As y’all may recall, I’ve been wanting to improve my Indonesian skills in anticipation of this year’s Catholic Answers cruise. On the Holland America line, a lot of the staff (particularly the waiters and room stewards) tend to be from Indonesia, and on past cruises I’ve entertained these folks by speaking a little of their native language and asking their help in learning more. This year I wanted to do even more, so I ordered the Pimsleur Indonesian set. Unfortunately, this set is only 10 lessons instead of the usual 30, but at least it’ll give me a good start.
This means I’ll have to put my Japanese studies on hold until I work through the set, but with only ten lessons, that won’t take too long.
I’ve already been using the set, and am quite pleased so far. I already knew parts of the initial conversation that they use at the beginning of every Pimsleur set, which was nice.
I do have one question for Beng or any other readers who speak Indonesian: One of the sounds in the language is a trilled R. Am I right in assuming that these trilled Rs are produced with the tip of the tongue in the front of the mouth (like the Spanish trilled R) or are they produced in the back of the mouth (like the Semitic GH)? Thanks for any help!
Jimmy,
Trilled r is like Spanish or Scottish. The Semitic gh or French/High German r is a uvular r.
Have a great time with Indonesian. I’ve never tried anything in that family!
Bill Walsh
Fellow Language Nerd
P.S. Feel free to e-mail me off-line anytime you wanna chat languages or other stuff…
“catsup” is based on an Indonesian word… or at least that is what i heard from someone who shall reamin nameless
Bill: Thanks, I appreciate it. I understand the difference between the two kinds of Rs but am trying to get a handle on which is used in Indonesian. The CDs I’m using sound like it’s a front of the mouth sound, but I’m wanting to check in case I’m hearing it wrong (the speakers on my laptop aren’t the greatest).
Quasimodo: That would be correct, though normally it’s attributed to Malay rather than Indonesian (the latter generally being considered a dialectic offshoot of the former).
Oh, my bad, I thought maybe you’d read “trilled r” and weren’t quite sure. Let me check my big phonology book.
Ok, it’s dental-alveolar in Indonesia, so like Spanish. “In Malaysia, r is a uvular fricative word-initially and medially, and is elided word-finally.”
Jimmy,
We bought the Hebrew Pimsleur (the ‘cheap’ set) a little while ago and I really like it. I know Pimsleur doesn’t have a Latin set, but do you (or does anyone else) know of anyone that has anything similar for Latin?
Thanks. 🙂
Davida
Bill: Thanks for the lookup! I’ll have to listen for the uvular location next time I’m talking to my friend from Malaysia. (I also played a CD on better speakers and the Indonesian version definitely seems to be aveolar, though I’d still love confirmation from Beng.)
Davida: Sorry, I’m afraid not. I wish there *WERE*! The lack of audio-based courses for ancient languages is so thorough that I’ve thought about developing them. (E.g., audio-based Learn The Latin/Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic Rosary courses.)
“r Rolled with the tongue like Italian “r”” according to The M.I.P. Concise Indonesian Dictionary, J.D. McGarry, 1989, page 112.
LOL, Jimmy
I’m having trouble trying to understand Spanish R and Semitic GH.
But I would say it’s the Spanish R.
Here’s how you talk the talk in Indonesia 🙂
Bapa (Father) kamu (Our)
Bapa Kami yang ada di surga
Our Father who art in Heaven
Dimuliakanlah nama-mu
Hallowed be thy name
Jadilah kerajaanmu
Your kingdom come
Diatas Bumi seperti didalam Surga
On Earth as it is in Heaven
Berilah kami rejeki pada hari ini
Give this day our daily bread
Dan ampunilah kesalahan kami
And forgive our trespasses
Seperti kamipun mengampuni yang bersalah kepada kami
As we also forgive those who trespasses against us
Dan janganlah masukkan kami dalam percobaan
And lead us not into temptation
Tapi bebasakanlah kami dari yang jahat
But deliver us from evil.
Amin
Amen
Salam (Hail) Maria (Mary)
Salam Maria penuh rahmat
Hail Mary, full of grace
Tuhan sertamu
The Lord is with thee
Terpujilah engkau diantara wanita dan terpujilah buah tubuhmu Yesus
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Santa Maria, Bunda Allah
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Doakanlah kami yang berdosa ini, sekarang dan saat kami mati. Amin.
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Enjoy and have a good trip
And pray for Indonesian Catholics 🙂
Wait, that’s:
Bapa (Father) Kami (Our)
not
Bapa (Father) Kamu (Our)
Kami = “we” that doesn’t include the person you’re talking to. So If me and a bunch of my group talk to the Pope, “But we can not make an infallible statement, you can!” The Pope is not included in the “we”
Kita = “we” that include the person you’re talking to. ex:
+Bruskewitz: Cardinal McHeret.. McCarrick, what the heck are you talking. ‘We’ can not send mix message to the faithful!!!
+McCarrick: I understand. I’m sorry. I was wrong wrong wrong.
Kamu = you
Kamu sekalian = All of you
Kalian = Ya’ll
So, we do have “Ya’ll” in Indonesia. We did it before Texans 😀
Quasimodo: the Malay/Indonesian word is “ketjap” (that is, ketchup – when did it become “catsup”?) There are several varieties, all soy-based, of which the two most popular are ketjap asin (salty) and ketjap manis (sweet – think of Kikkoman with a heavy schloop of molasses and hot spices added). The latter is the base for a terrific hot-pepper peanut sauce which goes with satay. Email me if you want the recipe 😉
Anne,
Quasimodo is just an ignorant bell ringer. Don’t look too closely at his spelling or knowledge of anything.
Q
Ketjap is actually the old spelling. Indonesia experienced three language changes (the writing). The new spelling is “Kecap”. “tj” is such a waste when you could use “c”
Hi
I’ve just returned from a month stay in Indonesia (Jawa Timur) about 1hr from Surabaya. In just that short time I have learnt a surprising amount of Indonesian language. One of the interesting things is that Indonesia has many, many languages or local dialects that differ quite dramatically from ‘official’ Indonesian.
I have found that when I listen to a conversation in Indonesian I can generally pick out every third of fourth word and pick up the gist of the conversation. When you start doing this and the Indonesians notice, they switch (in and out) to Javanese language to really screw you up.
Here are a few examples:
Indonesian:
Thank you = Terima kasih
You’re welcome = Kembali (or sama-sama)
No = Tidak
Javanese:
Thank you = Mater nuwon (pronounced ‘matter soo-woon’)
You’re welcome = Sami-sami (pronounced sammy sammy)
No = Moh (pronounced like the mo in more with back of the throat ‘oh’)
So you see the Indonesians have an ace up their sleeve, even if you do learn their lingo, and no-where will you find Pimsleur Jawanese!!